Doctors Reveal Which 'Do Not Resuscitate' Patients They Think Would Have Pulled Through
A DNR is a last resort for people who are terminally ill or injured and can no longer expect any quality of life. Although there are a few exceptions to this, end of life conversations are something that all families should have at some point.
YourBestNightmare asked doctors and nurses of Reddit: Was there a "DNR" patient that you knew could have made it? What's the story?
Submissions have been edited for clarity, context, and profanity.
First, some perspective.
I'm a doctor. I love this question, it's a great place to start. But, I can't answer it the way it's worded.
(DNR = Do Not Resuscitate, just so we're all on the same page)
The real question you have to answer first is this: How are you defining 'made it'? Is that just having a pulse? Breathing without mechanical assistance? Getting your nutrition from a surgically implanted tube? 'Making it' is different for different people.
So, that said, I think you're asking if a DNR order ever stopped us from saving someone that could have walked out of the hospital and lived a 'productive life' for a while longer.
No, I've never seen that happen.
DNR is usually requested by patients that have significant, ultimately terminal conditions. ( Don't confuse DNR with a 'living will', these are not the same thing). These patients have recognized that they've come close to the end of their lives and 'heroic efforts' are, at best, going to prolong their suffering.
It's a huge topic, it deserves much more time than we can give it here.
Also to add to this, there are a good number of times we could "get back" a DNR but the question that gets posed is "how is their quality of life".
Sure 90 year old grandma with cancer could have lived for another 2-3 months but is it going to be that great if we end up breaking all of her ribs to do CPR? If we need an artificial airway do we think she will ever get off or will she need a trache and never eat a solid meal again.
I have worked in the ICU for almost 5 years now and I can honestly say there has never been a case where I said "I wish <patient name> wasn't a DNR" though I can say on the flip side that at least once a weak I mutter to another medical professional "<patient name> really needs to be a DNR"
I've taken to working in variations of the phrase "I can do a lot of things TO your loved ones, but given their overall poor chance for a meaningful recovery, the question is whether I would be doing those things FOR them" into my goals of care discussions. Seems to get at least some people to understand that just because I can artificially extend life using machines for sometimes months at a time, should we actually be doing that.
DNRs are used in extreme situations.
One important thing to consider is that otherwise healthy people usually don't die and definitely don't have standing DNR orders.
That's usually only a code status you get tagged with if you're terminally ill and/or terminally elderly.
We only assign that designation when the patient, family, or power of attorney agrees, and when the patient has demonstrated a trajectory of illness toward unsurvivability.
Some examples of terminal conditions would be:
widely metastatic cancer refractory to treatments, end stage dementia plus acutely life threatening medical condition, cascading multiple organ system failure. Multiple successive critical care admissions over a short interval of time. Progressive failure to thrive at the end of life despite medical interventions and a potentially terminal event. An unsurvivable traumatic injury such as one that results in brain death or uncontrollable hemorrhage or widespread crush injury. Sudden cardiac death with prolonged hypoxia and anoxia brain injury, A massive acute stroke at an age exceeding recovery potential. Diffusely ischemic bowel beyond rescue confirmed surgically. Organ system failure with refused replacement therapy such as someone with Severe COPD that refuses ventilators support or someone with end stage renal failure that refuses dialysis. Patients already in hospice care.
Patients have a right to natural death without heroic interventions and associated expense to their estate should they so choose.
"Making it" doesn't mean having a quality of life.
I'm an emergency doctor, and DNR means do not resuscitate, the decision to place a patient in palliative care or label them DNR is when they have advance disease that cannot be improved or cured as their illness slowly progress and make their living harder and more painful, good examples are advance cancer , advanced COPD ..etc
You know a patient that could've made it? Probably most of them, but what do you mean by made it? Living under mechanical ventilation for weeks in the ICU and not able to wean them off until they eventually die, or living in severe pain/discomfort until they pass away? That would be the outcome if they were resuscitated,
The decision of DNR is not made on the spot, usually by the primary physician who knows their condition very well and know that there is absolutely no improvement or treatment to their current health condition and they try to make them as comfortable as possible.
Most patients/families that I encountered they understand and accept that they know it is a reasonable decision.
Cardiac nurse here. Most people I know probably could've made it, but the quality of life would be so low that living would be worse. Hooked to a ventilator, tubes in every hole, immense pain, TBI, brain dead etc. Very rarely do I see someone make it through a code and be at the same quality of life as they were prior.
My dad had his heart stop for less than 10 min. (Complications after surgery for his cancer). After he came back he was never really the same. The doctors helped him live another year and a half but he suffered a lot and his mental state and capacity were diminished. At the time there was no reason to believe he wouldn't make it and live a long life but the cancer ultimately spread and slowly took him.
Do I regret the extra time spent with him? No. However what I do know is that he would have had way less suffering if he never came back from that code.
With a few exceptions, death is often the most humane option.
Yes. Many patients are DNR plus DNI because many times you can't really do CPR in a hospital without also establishing an airway. We had an elderly gentleman in good shape/health in for severe pneumonia. He coughed up so much phlegm that he plugged his own airway. After multiple failed attempts to suction him orally and nasally when he turned gray we turned to the wife and offered to intubate him solely to remove the plug then immediately extubate him. She refused because she wanted to respect his wishes and he was vehemently opposed to being intubated or resuscitated. We watched him die. That's the only one that really sticks with me as being basically completely avoidable.
The truth is that far more patients should be DNRs but aren't than the other way around. Families really need to start discussing end of life care and expectations BEFORE they need to make that decision. Grandma won't live forever. I'm always a little amazed when people are so confused and dumbfounded that their 88 year old grandmother is dying.
Also it's a total myth that we won't work as hard to save you if you're a DNR or we just want your organs.
DNR does NOT mean don't treat. Even palliative care doesn't mean don't treat it just means that treatment options are more limited and the doctors are really looking at benefit vs risk. Comfort care means don't treat, just make them comfortable and let them die naturally.
Not enough families have the "talk."
It's usually the opposite in my experience actually. More often than not I have patients who are full codes, 90+ years old, advanced dementia, multiple co-morbidities, complete failures to thrive etc etc. And rarely do they have a family member who will advocate for them.
There are a handful of hospitalists that can't seem to bring themselves to know when enough's enough. And they always end up with these patients, and before you know it this poor old man or woman has an NG tube that we all know they goddamn well shouldn't be forced to have, and IV antibiotics for the pneumonia they're now drowning in and and and and.
There is nothing that breaks my heart more than when I admit a patient who's 95+ years old with a broken hip.
There's no telling how long someone will last.
Depends on what you mean by "made it". A decent amount of the patients with DNRs who stop breathing and go into cardiac arrest could be resuscitated and placed on a ventilator, but it's hard to say how long they would last, and their quality of life is usually already pretty grim by the time they get DNR paperwork filled out. I've never provided care for an otherwise healthy patient who stopped breathing and who had a DNR on file with the hospital, and finding a patient who fits that criteria is probably like finding a needle in a haystack.
And then there are the anti-medicine religious nuts.
I'm going to answer this question with a slightly skewed (and perhaps biased) answer.
I saw a young patient (20+) who had been in a trauma whose parents refused to allow us to treat him appropriately, basically allowing him to die. He had lost a significant amount of blood and needed to be transfused. His parents were Jehovah Witnesses and refused to allow him to be transfused. He was given so much saline to bring his volume and pressure up, that when you drew blood for chemistry, it looked like cherry cool aid. It was so serious that they were using vials designed for preemies instead of adults for blood draws. He died of a heart attack because he couldn't oxygenate anymore.
I find it hard to believe that was legal for his parents to make that decision. I know if he were a minor, it would've definitely been illegal, emergency care would've been provided, and it could've been pushed up the ethics chain if the parents strongly disagreed.
Medical staff have to respect a patient and family's wishes, especially religious. This sort of thing happens less and less as there are new alternatives to maintaining life without using blood products but it absolutely happens and is ethical.
You're right. If it had been a minor, this would have been quickly taken in front of a judge to appoint a guardian ad litem. In this instance, the parents of this adult can always say that these were his wishes too, at which point our hands are tied.
This is precisely a case why you need to appoint someone you trust as a medical POA, someone who will respect your wishes even though it may conflict with their own personal beliefs.
(As a side note, this was 20+ years ago and technology has improved)
Those who sign DNRs don't plan on coming back.
As others have said, but maybe I can put it more succinctly, people who are DNRs are not strong, healthy people. Sure, you might be able to revive them for some time, but their quality of life would be abysmal, which is why they chose to be a DNR: they don't want to live with tubes coming out of every hole, artificially keeping them alive.
So can a healthy person request DNR just to be an assh*le?
To be an assh*le to themselves? No skin off my nose if someone healthy wants to be a DNR. I'm not here to judge. It's their life.
This is pretty cool.
My sister was a foster child and the state tried to place a DNR on her due to a seizure disorder that hospitalized her many times. My parents fought them to have it removed. She had a hemispherectomy at age two, learned how to use her body all over again and is now living a very productive life for someone with half of a brain.
I've heard enough of these stories that I push back on the QOL judgement in healthcare. While they're working off a great breadth of info, it's not perfect. Hell, they discovered a woman with no cerebellum that could walk. She was described as "a little unsteady."
Have you ever found yourself in an argument so stupid and/or pointless that you were sure you were being punked? Like you keep looking away from the other person to check your surroundings for places Ashton Kutcher and a camera crew could come popping out of?
You're not the only one.
u/Anti-hollowkid asked: What is the dumbest argument you've ever been in?Brace yourselves, folks. Some of these arguments are breathtakingly bonkers. The sheer number of people who are willing to argue with someone over provable facts and what that other person likes or doesn't like is just ... stunning. It's stunning, you guys. Just not in a good way.
I Know What I LikeGiphy
My wife and I once argued over whether or not I liked mustard on my hot dog. I was for me liking mustard, she was against me liking mustard.
The argument lasted way longer that you could ever imagine it would.
A Stair Step
My brother and I argued if our staircase had 13 or 14 steps, based on an argument about if the floor of the second floor counts as a stair-step or not. We still have no solution.
My dad is a stairbuilder and I spent many summers working at his warehouse, so I can clear this up. 14.
My husband and I have this thing where we only say "I love you" on Saturdays. Every other day it's "I love you, but only on Saturdays." I don't know how it started, but it's been going for 11 years now.
We're both shiftworkers, so sometimes we have to stop and think what day it actually is. We had an argument recently over whether it was Saturday or not. I said it was Saturday, he said it was Friday. It was Monday.
I remember when I was about 13 my parents had an hour-long shouting match that ended with them almost getting divorced. The issue? Whether or not the nation of Iraq has a coastline.
My mother arguing that Iraq had a coastline, while my stepdad argued that it did not. This was back in 2004, and they are still quite happily married to this day. That incident is something they look back on and laugh about, and both of them admit it was really a pretty stupid thing to argue over.
With an ex:
"I owe you $80 for the bills of ours that you pay, and you owe me $40 for the bills of ours that I paid. Here's $40 in cash; we're even."
She did not understand this.
I literally had to go get another $40 out of the ATM, and hand the $80 to her. Then I had her hand me the $40 she owed me.
"Now how much do you have in your hand?"
She still didn't understand.
She somehow has a college degree.
When we were kids my brother and I got in a physical fight because he said I like mini wheats and I insisted I didn't. His argument was that I always sang the mini wheats song and I was deeply offended that he wasn't aware that it was just stuck in my head but I hated the cereal. I actually did like the cereal I'm not sure why I was arguing with him about it but I remember how genuinely angry I was.
I'll tell you about the only legal trouble I've ever been in, the fight that got me arrested. It started over whether we should return a box of crayons or not, and to this day I don't have any idea how it escalated to the point of the cops being called, but they were and I was the one taken in.
My boyfriend insisted that when two people are in an argument and one makes a point so reasonable and logical the other one can't disagree with it - it's unfair. I tried, logically and reasonably, to explain several times why that is just winning the argument, proving your point thoroughly and is completely fair.
His answer was that I was being unfair.
How the ch in masochism is pronounced. My friend caught me saying "masoKism" while he would say "masoSYism."
To be fair, he grew up speaking French, in which the ch in masochism is pronounced in "his" way. But he insisted that I was the wrong one here and that was just infuriating.
A woman was adamant that looking at the big solar eclipse on the television was unsafe unless you were wearing glasses. She wouldn't believe us and insisted on emailing NASA to check.
A Non-Standard Ruler?
I worked for a company that made signs. We had a customer ask for signs that were 7mm wide that were to go on a door. Our sign makers figured the order meant inches because 7mm is pretty small, so made them 7 inches. I got a phone call from the customer who went mad at me for making them the wrong size. So I put a reorder through for 7 mm.
Argued with the sign makers over it but they eventually agreed to do it after I shown them the order in writing. I even had the customer put her complaint in writing, reiterating the size they wanted.
7mm signs went out and a day later I get the customer on the phone literally screaming at me.
Cue the dumb argument - we ended up having an argument over how big a millimetre is, and obviously everyone in the office were laughing, but this customer just wouldn't accept it and said we must be using a non-standard ruler to measure.
Ended up being escalating to the sales department manager who refused to issue a refund. We still don't know what they actually meant.
This Unusual Vegan Argument
Was in a pub with a few friends, and some random Dude dropped an ear, and somehow figured I'm vegan. Well, people like him are the reason I usually avoid mentioning it. He came up to me and insisted on starting a discussion about veganism. He claimed that by the end of it, I would be eating meat again.
He listed some stupid arguments, I told him I was not convinced and then tried to keep on drinking beer with my friends. He followed me, and wanted me to "try to convert him to a vegan." I stupidly listed some of my reasons thinking it would make him go away. He told me he still was not convinced, so I was like whatever. Again, I really just wanted to drink beer with my friends.
That dude followed me all night and expected me to try make him vegan. Doesn't matter what I said, and all the reasons that for me are obviously good enough to be vegan. He'd be just like "No, that doesn't convince me, therefore your argument and how you life is stupid."
Didn't matter how often I told him that I honestly don't care; 5 minutes later he would come up to me again "I'm still not vegan, so veganism is stupid, all your arguments were stupid, now give me a good reason to become vegan!" At one point, I was literally yelling at him that I don't give a single flying f about what he eats and why, that it's in no way my responsibility to "turn somebody vegan" and in no way his business what I eat.
Honestly, for that dude, I would have bought a whole ham, just to shove it up his stupid annoying face.
In college my roommate and I argued about a line in Monty Python & the Holy Grail. The scene with the Black Knight where the line "Alright, we'll call it a draw" is uttered. We argued about who said that line, whether it was King Arthur or the Black Knight.
It went on for hours longer than it should have because I was stubborn and refused to admit I was wrong.
Albert or ArnoldGiphy
Whether Albert Einstein or Arnold Schwarzenegger would be more useful to have around during a Zombie apocalypse. How on earth would Albert Einstein come in handy!?
Below Sea Level
I live on an island and when you go upland and you look out the sea looks like it's higher than or on the same level as the land. It's just a weird perspective thing because of the horizon. One day some kid says that it's because the island is under sea level.
I'm like wtf bro all of us would be with the fishes. He argues that no that's not true and if I just go upland I'll see. We then spend a good 5 minutes of my time arguing about it until I decided to leave this kid in his stupidity. He even said we shouldn't believe everything adults tell us and sometimes we need to think for ourselves.
This kid was older than me and was going to a good school. Lost my respect for him ever since then.
Someone tried to fight with me over how to spell my name.
Now, my name is in a lot of languages with slightly different spellings. I would have accepted any of those spellings, but this one was just... Not even close. It didn't make any logical sense.
An analogous example is if my name was Thomas and someone was insisting it was spelled Tomash. And not just the name Thomas in general, but that me specifically, on my birth certificate, was named Tomash. I know how to spell my own name.
I swear to god, it went on for like an hour.
Whales Are Mammals
I was in an online chat room one day, and we were talking about whales. I commented on how whales are mammals and the next thing you know, someone was arguing with me and trying to convince me that a whale was a fish.
Stupid microwaves. Having a man child talk down to me about how microwaves work only for him to google it and prove me right. He slept on the sofa that night.
My friend keeps telling me that the norm is that a person should shower once a week. This has been going on for years. I'm almost convinced he's trolling me.
No Balloons For Grandma
My cousin and I argued over a balloon going to Heaven. We were at his big sisters prom send off and he let a balloon go and it went high into the sky.
He then said this balloon will go up past space and go to Heaven and reach grandma (God rest her soul). And I was like no it's not and it's probably not even gonna reach space. Releasing balloons is terrible for the environment and kills/harms so much wildlife.
He got really mad and defensive and started telling me to google it and do my research and I'm like I don't have to google it you idiot. He was mad at me for a good week.
Spontaneous Dolphin ExistenceGiphy
How dolphins reproduced. It took me a few solid minutes of explaining to her that dolphins have reproductive organs and that they did not just pop into existence. The argument began with her saying she wanted to work with sea creatures.
Personally, I hope she was messing with me cause I lost a little faith in humanity that day.
I repeatedly had the argument with a friend over whether roosters were chickens. She was convinced that only the females were chickens (hens). We were 18 at the time.
Me and my friend were drinking underage, we ended up in an argument of whether lightning McQueen's eyes were blue or green. Somehow throughout the whole thing both of us never thought to straight up google a picture.
But ... Ice Floats
Woman wanted ice on the bottom of her drink.
Now read that sentence again and try to imagine arguing with that particular brand of stupid.
Time Zones Exist
Coworker claimed that it was the same time of day and the same season on the whole globe. Had to get 4 coworkers to confirm to him that time zones do in fact exist.
My brother is colorblind. And he CONSTANTLY tries to correct me on what color things are.
"Hey could you hand me that red _____?"
"no, it's red"
"YOU CANT EVEN KNOW"
It is the base of our most common and heated arguments.
I'm late, but I saw this question and instantly remembered that I was booted from a Facebook group because I called someone out on a lie that was not only bull, but extremely pointless. She was friends with the moderator and they made the case that my argument over such a little lie was more of a problem than the lie itself (though they didn't refer to it as a lie.)
The woman said that she used to babysit for Andre 3000 and that his name was Andre 2000 - but he changed it after the year 2000 had passed. This was so easily disproven it was ridiculous. Their debut album came out in 1994 and he was already going by Andre 3000 at that time.
The argument wasn't a huge long drawn out thing, but the fact that either of us were on Facebook at separate times meant that the responses were over a long period of time so this argument lasted a few days.
It was stupid.
Stars Like Our Sun
I was arguing with my grandpa about stars he didn't believe that there are other stars like our sun. Basically he thought there is only the sun, the moon and the earth.
I have a degree in history. I mostly focused on nationalism. Wrote a 50 page paper on it and Richard Nixon with around 50 100 sources. Looked at micro film for hours on end. Part of the paper focused on how Nixon being chair of the house committee of Unamerican Activities was used as a powerful weapon to use against political enemies. It also inspired Joe McCarthy. Have had people tell me I was wrong and Nixon was never elected to a position besides the president and Joe McCarthy came before Nixon. I stopped trying to talk history to people.
I also know quite a bit about the history of the Balkans its amazing how many Serbs refuse to believe Tito did anything wrong.
Wrote 100 page paper on nationalism in Israel. Its frustrating to talk about because for some reason a lot of people think Palestinian firing rockets randomly into Israel is ok but if Israel retaliates the people get up in arms over a targeted air strike that kills 3 people.
Balloon to Heaven
My cousin and I argued over a balloon going to Heaven. We were at his big sisters prom send off and he let a balloon go and it went high into the sky. He then said this balloon will go up past space and go to Heaven and reach grandma (God rest her soul). And I was like no it's not and it's probably not even gonna reach space.
And he got really mad and defensive and started telling me to google it and do my research and I'm like I don't have to google it you idiot. He was mad at me for a good week.
I got into an argument with a co-worker over how we were attaching two pages of a letter together: small binder clips or paper clips.
He felt that paper clips would leave a "dent" in the paper when removed, but binder clips won't. He refused to staple them together. I felt that binder clips would also leave a "dent", so we might as well just use the paper clips.
It ended with him saying: "Do what you want [me], I don't care!" and storming off.
Once got accused of faking being Jewish. Why? I have no clue. We argued over the course of a month, any time I'd bring it up and she heard about it, she'd begin going after me for "faking it".
My mother's side is ethnically Jewish. Grandparents were practicing.
3 friends and I once got into an argument about how to pronounce Nutella. It lasted for about 3-4 months. It was hilarious how serious we took it, it'd get heated but never for real serious.
I think someone even called the company that made it to check, or that may have been for the Cheetos company. We were really bored in high school.
Late to the party, but there it is.
I'm a manager at a small store. We're only 4 working there, so my team and I grew very close and we joke around a lot. Once during a slow shift, my employee and I had an argument because we were looking at the lingerie boxes, and I thought that two specific boxes had the same woman on it, but she was 100% positive they weren't the same person.
Looking back, I don't know why it was such a big deal to us at the time, but we even called another employee who lives across the street to come and tell us what the heck was up with that. Turns out I was right, and she was pretty salty about it. It was a great night.
Wicked Witch of the West
I almost got into an argument with an old girlfriend over Glinda the good witch from Oz. She insisted that Glinda was manipulating Dorothy to assassinate the Wicked Witch of the West and convince the Wizard to leave to create a political void she could fill.
I conceded the issue when I heard the whole premise because I thought it was too damn stupid to get worked up over.
Keep Your Hands to Yourself
Just the other day I legit got in an argument with my co-workers on why I don't like my butt being grabbed by anyone (I'm a guy). Seriously.
They went on about "I don't mind it. Mike and I do it all the time and we don't care." Yeah, that's nice dude, but I'm not you, and there's something called "Keep your hands to yourself" (which was taught to a good portion of us growing up). Just like how Karen wouldn't like it if I touched her boobs or her grabbing your crotch or frankly ANY area you wouldn't like being grabbed, keep away. In general, you should not be touching me in any areas after I've told you not to several times before.
So unless you're sleeping me or dating me, keep your damn hands off my toosh.
My best friend and I argued over whether or not telekinesis was possible. Her argument was that humans don't yet know what the human brain at 100% usage was capable of, and that telekinesis was inside the possibilities.
I said the brain does use 100%, just at different times.
We didn't speak to each other for four days.
How dolphins reproduced and whether or not ghost existed (back to back with the same person). It took me a few solid minutes of explaining to her that dolphins have reproductive organs and that they did not just pop into existence (the argument began with her saying she wanted to work with sea creatures).
How it shifted to the existence of ghosts is a solid and reasonable question to ask (I don't remember why). I had to then proceed to tell her that ghost hunting TV shows do not constitute as undeniable evidence.
Personally, I hope she was messing with me cause I lost a little faith in humanity that day. This was in high school SO... hopefully she was kidding.
Dogs and ChocolateGiphy
I told this stupid woman that chocolate is toxic to dogs. She went on to tell me how a little bit will just make them hyper and then they will calm down. I told her to google it. Her and her bf shut right up. Now they have a kid. Good luck, Jeremy and Andrea. morons.
I should also add that this argument started because Jeremy was giving his tiny dog chocolate and I told him it was toxic.
Is water wet?
My roommate and I have a recurring argument over whether or not water is wet l, and whether or not a person is considered wet underwater.
For the record, it is no to both questions.
A kid a church telling me about the mission trip I went on. Not only was I not on that trip, but I had never been on any mission trip. We were good friends, so it's not like he would've mistaken someone else for me.
He insisted I was there as if an entire week long trip would just fall out of my memory. He even had stories of things we'd done together. I'm not sure if he thought I was lying, joking, stupid, or crazy, but I was pretty sure he was some combination thereof.
One time I got into a shouting match with my mom and little brother in the car. The issue? The names of the two-headed dragon from the PBS kids afternoon show Dragon Tales. I swore it was Zack and Macie.
It was actually Zak and Wheezie. I don't even remember why we were yelling about it.
Green Or Yellow?
When I was about 15 or so my mother and I spent about 20-30 minutes arguing about the color of a shirt. We agreed it was blue/green, but to me it was just a shade more blue, while to her it was just a bit more green.
Turns out, your eyeballs yellow as you age and hers were 24 years yellower than mine, so I think that skewed her color vision.
Stars In Their MultitudeGiphy
I once got in an argument over whether or not a line from the song "Stars" in Les Mis says "...but mine is the way of the lord" or "mine is the way of the law".
I didn't even really care what he thought but he was so adamant and cocky that it got me heated. By the end of it we were shouting at each other and I had to apologize, which I think is what he wanted the whole time.
My brother is colorblind. And he CONSTANTLY tries to correct me on what color things are.
"Hey could you hand me that red _____?" "that's orange" "no, it's red" "orange" "YOU CANT EVEN KNOW".
It is the base of our most common and heated arguments.
About five years ago, my girlfriend (now wife) once had a very intense argument about whether or not hot water cleaned things better than cold water.
She genuinely believed that water temperature didn't matter. This is someone who has not one, but two masters degrees.
We argued for something like 2 hours, and we seriously almost broke up over the whole thing.
I had an argument with a girl IN THE MIDDLE OF A BIOLOGY CLASS in high school about how humans are not mammals. She thought a human was a human and we are not mammals because "mammals are animals and humans are not animals"
I tried explaining to her the difference between reptiles and mammals and how humans fall under the mammal category to try and educate her... but she just wouldn't listen.
I still have no idea why the BIOLOGY teacher did not get involved...
Solid Or Liquid?
Some classmates and I got into a heated debate as to whether or not the human body could count as a soup, salad, or sandwich. The teacher got mad at us, but hey! All we were doing was watching a movie.
For the record, my logic lays with soup- Liquid contained within a solid, at a hot temperature.