Gay Men Share What Is Was Like Coming Out During The AIDS Crisis.

The AIDS epidemic of the 1980s ravaged the gay community in North America. There was so much uncertainty surrounding the deaths of so many young men, only to be complicated additionally by their sexual orientation. This, along with the potential society backlash, made coming out at that time especially difficult.

Here, gay men reveal what is was like coming out during the AIDS crisis.



1. I was just coming out at the time that AIDS came into public awareness ( I was 25 at the time). I had moved to Denver to kind of find myself and figure things out...to get away from my hometown. Not knowing anyone in Denver, I of course started making friends. Unfortunately, what happened was that a few months after I'd make a friend, they'd pass away from complications of AIDS. I attended just over 20 funerals the first year I was there.

It was a scary time. Not only the fear of AIDS, but I started getting to where I was afraid to try to make any friends knowing that the chance of them dying from AIDS was extremely high.

There was also the fear of not knowing the specifics of how the disease was transmitted. It was strongly believed at the time it was sexual, but there was no information on other methods of transmitting it...casual contact? kissing? sharing eating utensils? No one knew, and everyone in the gay community was afraid.

Over time, AIDS wiped out an entire generation of gay men. This has had an effect on the more recent generations since people that would normally have been mentors, big brother figures, teachers, etc. were gone, so the younger generation lost out on the wisdom and experience of the previous one.

The worst thing was when my first gay friend (and my best friend), came to me two years after I moved back home, that he had AIDS. He told me how scared he was, and that he didn't want to die. He was one of the first group that was put on AZT as the one and only treatment at the time. He died 8 months later.

Griffie

2. Imagine you are in your mid-20s, have a large circle of friends, and have had sex with maybe 20-30 guys. Then imagine by the time you reach 30, you've watched 90 percent of those people die a slow, painful death which left them looking like frail, old men. Some of us didn't have to imagine it, we lived it.

It took about five years to put the pieces together and identify HIV and means of transmission. I think most of the infections took place during that time. There was a lot of denial. And there was all-out panic and confusion. When the first HIV test became available, doctors often advised not getting it because there was absolutely no treatment and nothing you could do about it; it was a death sentence. Some people chose suicide as an alternative.

Most gays at the time were not "out" -- that came later largely as a response to the AIDS epidemic. AIDS "outed" a lot of people. Rock Hudson comes to mind as one of the first and most well-known.

Bad times.

blfstyk

3. My uncle died of aids in 1991. He was a doctor, he was a wonderful philanthropist, he was a loving person, but he most often gets remembered for being gay and getting aids. In Mexico that was probably the worst thing you could have been outed for in that day. It caused more drama in my family than I can ever imagine.

All of his friends had it, they're all dead now. My mom recalls a chaotic fear at the time, he was treated like a leper and only my mom and aunt would go anywhere near him. He felt so alone and scared. Suddenly all his accomplishments in life were worthless because he liked men. RIP Tio, you were more than that.

[deleted]

4. Neither gay nor male; I'm a presbyterian minister and have had gay friends all my life. I watched as friends from high school died without knowing why--saw friends in seminary (I was in seminary in the early 80s) grow sad and fearful--and like the man you described, went to or conducted funerals about every two weeks. I've made at least one quilt panel in every congregation I've served... and you're right. The disease erupted so quickly, and was so disfiguring, that so many people were "outed" by the disease. Good news, if there was any, is that many communities of faith stepped up & had AIDS ministries, without judgment or precondition.

Once the antiviral cocktails made HIV something you live with rather than die from, the backlash came.

momsarev

5. I can weigh in here for my brother because he can't. My brother passed a few years ago from HIV. When he died, he was one of the longest living HIV patients in the U.S.

He was diagnosed at 17 and lived a few months past his 40th birthday.

He talked about going to the bar and hearing someone was sick, and they'd die a couple of days later. It happened a lot. Once he was diagnosed, he started living his life like he had a week left, and he did that for over 20 years. Lots of drugs, drinking, armed robbery, prison, prostitution, abuse. It was hard to watch.

By the time he passed, he was pretty beat down because all of his friends were gone. It was extremely sad to watch.

RIP Todd.

acerbic_jerk

6. I cannot imagine what this scenario was like on either an emotional or intellectual level. I met a man who told me that he went to a funeral every week or two in New York City in the early 80s.

IMACNMNE

7. I heard from an older gay gentleman that it set back the gay rights movement years of progress. Starting in the 60's and continuing through the 70's, gay rights was progressing strongly. But AIDS, being dubbed "the gay plague", really set the movement back. People viewed it (and still do) as God "putting his foot down on the gay epidemic".

He was very down trodden speaking about it because he knew really good people who died because of it, and their deaths were used as fodder to dampen the gay rights movement. Very sad.

st_basterd

8. I was 15 in 1980 and knew I was gay and was starting to feel positive about it. Times seemed to be changing enough that I felt it would be okay when I grew up. One example was that there was a sitcom me and my mom would watch called Soap (1977-1981) that had a gay character (I think it was the first gay character on a tv show) played by Billy Crystal who had been married and had a kid before coming out; there was a scene where he was in court fighting for custody for his kid (the ex-wife was horrible person but thought she'd win because her ex-husband was a filthy gay) -- when the judge announced he won custody my mom started cheering. So I was optimistic about the future.

Then the disaster crushingly came. The first I heard about the disease was in my dad's Hustler magazine. They had a short news story about a strange new cancer that's only killing gay men and it was thought to be caused by amyl nitrite (also known as poppers).

By my senior year in '83, everyone knew about AIDS and that it was sexually transmitted, but that was about all we knew. I had a few gay friends my age and we were all scared and kind of fatalistic. Just when we thought our adult years would be open and positive, now there's this. It was devastating. I lived in the deep south and I heard so frequently how it was God's punishment (story continued on the next page...).



During my senior year in high school I had great straight friends 20 years old who had just married and lived in this old Victorian house that was divided up into apartments. On their floor was this gay man about 40 who had AIDS. He was the first I knew that had it. He was in the "wasting" stage. He was really so thin and frail, but still had to work at his cashiers job. His life was brutally hard as his family would have nothing to do with him. My friends helped him out as much as they could. My visits to him broke my heart and also terrified me. Was this my future?

Anyways, I ended up in a gay marriage when I was really young (21 in '86) and we've been together since. About two years into our relationship I got really scared that we were both infected from our very few sexual encounters we had before we got together. We got tested. That was one of the scariest things I've ever done - the wait for the results was hell. "Negative" never sounded so sweet!

We've never been much into the "gay community" (we're both kinda homebody introverts) and thus have known very few that had it. However, last year I lost a longtime friend who contracted it around '87.

[deleted]

9. I just lost so many friends. So many good, kind-hearted, beautiful people died during that time. It makes you feel guilty, being one of the lucky who did not contract HIV. I used to get so angry and mad about seeing all this death around me, especially when it seemed the public as a whole would rather ignore it.

[deleted]

10. I'm a little late to the game. I'm not gay nor was I an adult in the 80's, but I went with my mother to two beauty salons, one where she got her hair done and one where the nail lady was. Both places had mostly male hair dressers, and they were all gay. AIDS decimated both of those beauty shops. My mom tried to explain what was going on in terms a six-year-old could understand, but I don't think it really clicked until later how terrifying it must have been in the gay community at that time.

In particular, I remember this fairly flamboyant man named Stephen who did hair next to my mom's hair dresser. He was nice and always put up with me talking to him and asking stupid kid questions. One time we went, and Stephen was not at his station. I asked this other guy, Nick, where Stephen was. Nick told me that Stephen had gotten sick, gone blind, and died. Then, a couple of visits later, Nick was also dead.

classactdynamo

11. In the late 80's and early 90's, I lived in Atlanta. My family was very active in the Catholic Church. One day, around 5 am, my dad and I packed up to head into downtown Atlanta, and went into this sort of ramshackle old house. It turned out that this was a hospice set up by Mother Theresa's Missionaries of Charity for gay men dying from AIDS.

I will never forget what that place was like. Everyone there was in the "wasting" stage of the virus. All the men were frail, incredibly underweight, and gaunt. And the silence. People were so afraid of the virus that no one came to visit these folks, even in 1991 when we were well aware of how it spread. The nuns there were the only people who would get near them. My mind could barely comprehend the fact that everyone who had a bed in that hospice would be dead in less than 6 months at that point.

I am not a religious person per se, but another striking moment was when I asked an old nun if God was punishing these men. She wheeled around and locked eyes with me and said "no, God loves them. Life punishes men." That's always stuck with me when I hear fundamentalist nut cases talking about AIDS being a punishment from on high.

lawdog22

12. I was 18 in 1980. I left boarding school that year and came to London. I was slated for University but decided to take time out. The first thing I did was join a gay youth group and move in with a bunch of gay men most of whom were activist types.

For a couple of years I divided my time between the gay scene - or parts of it anyway - and getting involved politically. The scene was fairly low key really and it was very diverse: there were a lot of alternative and community based social spaces. I had a great time and I made the friends who changed my life. I had lots of sex; lots of lovers (usually serially, sometimes not); I spent too much time in workshops whining about straight men (thank god I'm over that one). I lived in squats and went to parties where George, Marilyn, and various bronskis hung out. I argued in political meetings about the labour party with Peter Tatchell and lobbied council meetings. Fun times.

Then in 1982/3 we started to hear about the disease (story continued on the next page...).



The information at first was vague and difficult to interpret but one thing that happened 1n 1982 or 3 for me was that I met a man who had been in California very recently and he insisted that we use condoms during sex. I remember we had a long talk and he told me what he'd heard in the US. I was convinced enough by that and the rest of what I was hearing to 1) become a complete condom convert 2) start agitating about the disease wherever I could.

Looking back, I wonder how it was that so many of my friends survived while so many others were taken around us. I honestly don't know. I went to my share of funerals - one where the preacher tried to use the eulogy to preach damnation and bigotry while family and friends looked on: we put a stop to that I remember - and I cried my way through the slow deaths of friends and lovers: we had to learn how to do that, how to be with people while they died. And the annual memorial services waiting to hear what names might be read out. But, somehow, my own close circle only lost a few. I think I know why and without wishing to offend anyone, I'm sure it was because being politically plugged in we were early safer sex adopters.

everactivist

13. Being gay, and having an absolute aversion to anal sex; I just understood why. I was born in the 80's and knew what Karposi's sarcoma was at age 8 because there was a man, 20 years old, dying in a nursing home, where my mom worked (as a nurse) of an unknown virus. I remember hearing from other people in the nursing home, right before Andy died that he probably got it from gay sex. My mom was the only nurse that wasn't afraid to care for him, be in the room with him, and be by his side until he died. He never saw 21. His parents, both alive at the time, never came to see him, not once, because he was gay. Once I knew I was gay I knew I could never risk ending up like Andy, I couldn't do that to my mom again. I never realized until right now, how much this really impacted me, and scared the piss outta me.

neil_obrien

14. My uncle was diagnosed with AIDS in the mid-80's and eventually died in 1989. I was rather young at the time (12 or 13), but there are two very distinct things that I remember about him: First, that whatever he was afflicted with had completely transformed him. I don't know if was the treatment or what, but he had taken to wearing women's pumps and walking through the streets of San Francisco proclaiming, "I'm a miracle!" This was a man who had gone to Pepperdine. He was incredibly sweet, articulate, intelligent, and his wit as I recall was razor sharp. This disease (or whatever the treatments were at the time) had destroyed the person I knew.

Second: The last time I ever spoke with him on the telephone I knew the second I handed to phone to my mother (who he had called and asked to speak to before exchanging "what's new with you's"), that it would be the last time I ever spoke with him.

I was correct.

polaroidgeek

15. From my partner who fits your description:

"Since HIV infection with Kaposi's sarcoma was very obvious by 1978-79, inside the gay community if you were a little intelligent you knew that something very drastic was going on because people that we knew already infected and dying. The exact ramifications of safe sex and the methods of transmission were not known, but it was obvious to everyone that transmission was going to end up being something sexual. Probably anal sex, which turned out to be correct."

pantisflyhand

16. In 1984 I was arrested on an protest against aids abuse and spent time in prison.

I found myself more or less settled with one boy and I decided to go to university. I nearly flunked my first year because of the miners' strike. During that strike we organized an LGBT support campaign for the strikers based on earlier experience in the ant-Murdoch strikes. I remember the utter confusion when we arrived in mining communities in south wales armed with food parcels - but it was great and I know it changed attitudes all round.

After that strike, the gay scene changed. Of course, AIDS awareness became a central part of the scene and as a result activism was professionalized as part of public health. To some extent, LGBT awareness made it mainstream piggybacking on a public health issue. To be frank, our old style confrontationist activism was out of place post-AIDS.

So, I made my way into the new social scene a bit. Over the years that followed a few friends became ill, just a few, but it is always a personal blow. By the late 80s/early90s we were seeing new treatments come out of the research labs that were able to significantly prolong lives. The funerals had started to tail off some time before and now they faded from horror to normality. I thought that would be a linear process. I got on with my job and did some community work - partly because the new mainstream gay scene didn't suit me, old reprobate queer that I am.

A decade later two things happened that galvanized me (story continued on the next page...)



1. AIDS in Africa and 2.,the prevalence of risky sex among young gay boys. Now those two things consume me. The devastation in Africa makes me angry enough to start the revolution over again. It's predominantly caused by politics: the politics of aid; the politics of religion and the corrupt politics of local chauvinism and of course the market model of drug development and distribution. It's intolerable that Africa should have to go through this so I have something to do.

Then there's the kids. I can't remember when I first heard about the lack of safer sex awareness among young gay boys but that made me move to and it gets me out of the house.

everactivist

17. My dads first response was to give blood. He was already a blood donor, but this is generally his response to any widespread health crisis. Like the swine flu outbreak, he gave blood for that one too.

KattAndSuch

18. I was in San Francisco in the early 80's. I was in my early 20's and just had moved there when people started dying. I had to leave 10 years later because I was so clinically depressed that my doctor and psychiatrist both said, "San Francisco is more about death and dying for you than living you need to leave". In that 10 years every friend I had made after moving there and people I had just met were dying off so quickly that I just become numb. I couldn't react anymore to news that someone was sick or dead. Combine that with the fear that every time I had sex, you think that maybe this is when I get infected or this is when I infect someone else.

When I found out that I was HIV positive in January 1987 - they said - 'This is not death sentence people are now living a year or even 2 with this disease". That was 25 years ago and I'm still alive. Not on any of the new drugs, mostly out of fear since everyone I knew that when on AZT and the other early drugs are now dead. Plus, once you go on them, you're on them for life. Without healthcare that means you could be dependent on a lifesaving drug and then not be able to get it. So I still live with this everyday.

To end on a more uplifting note, gay men in the US I believe made the greatest change in behavior and social change in such a short period of time by practicing safer sex, having fewer partners and pushing the government and industry to fight this awful disease. I'm proud to be gay and to have lived when I did because the whole world benefits from all of the protest and sit-ins and yelling we did to bring about changes to politics and healthcare.

stillhere415

19. In June 1982, a CDC report theorized an unknown viral disease that could be transmitted by blood and sexual contact, but also proposed it could be a result of drug use.

In August 1982, the CDC renamed it from Gay-related Immune Deficiency (GRID) to Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome - AIDS, given the overwhelming evidence that it was affecting not only gay men and that it was likely an infectious agent.

And these were fucking terrifying times. No one knew what the infectious agent was, precisely how it was transmitted, whether it was a combination of factors such as drug use + the agent, etc.

So from the first reports to a general consensus that it's a new, unknown virus took about 18 months.

HIV was isolated first in May 1983, and again with confirmation in May 1984. Confirmation that this virus caused AIDS was established in the 1984-1985 timeframe so, so the etiological agent was isolated about 3 years after the first reports.

That's not to say, that communicating this information to the public, or even many people in the medical profession, was easy. While public health was often, from the start, very matter of fact in addressing the issue, politicians and the media were often hysterical and irrational. A lot of people were completely in the dark until the late 1980s.

exasperation

20. Want testimony from the late eighties? There were still funerals every week then. There was still very much confusion about precisely how transmission was happening. By then there was overreaction (every lesbian I knew used dental dams), there were people who just didn't care, many people who just assumed being gay meant they were going to die, and there were, say the HIV is a lie people... making what could still seem like a plausible argument.

Something I'd really like younger people to understand. I'm bisexual, and had multiple partners in that time who were or thought they were positive. Once I reached San Francisco and got the safe sex literature and free condoms on the streets I was meticulously safe, always. But something important for people to understand is, once you took the right precaution, it was worth it to risk death for love and sex, it was an act of essential defiance and brotherhood and sisterhood.

floweryleatherboy



21. Howard Ashman, better known as the lyricist half of the songwriting duo for The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin, was gay- and had a partner- in the 80s. He ended up dying from AIDS just before Beast came out. According to his sister's blog, many of his gay friends died before he did. One of his friends called it "the gay cancer," and some believed it was caused by the use of poppers in the community. Of course, it was all kept a big secret- he continued to work on the films until his death, but they had to move parts of production to New York to do so, and only a few people knew why. Great man, terrible tragedy.

cinemachick

22. AIDS stole my youth even without infecting me. I was a teenager in the 1980s, and AIDS was strong factor that made me repress my sexuality for a long time, remained virgin till my mid-thirties. Accepting your sexuality is hard when gay people appear on the media only as gaunt, walking dead men.

piper11

23. I'm not gay, but I was in college from 77-81 and I would buy and read the NY Times every day. I started to see small articles buried deep in the paper about an incurable disease that was hitting gay men, and seemed to be sexually transmitted. At first it had no name, and then it became GRID (Gay-related immunodeficiency disease). I don't know why other people weren't paying attention at first. Just because this incurable, always deadly disease was affecting gay men then, didn't mean it couldn't be contracted by the population at large.

The_Original_Gronkie

24. I am 31 and a lesbian and I just want to say thank you.

We, the younger generation, appreciate you and wouldn't be here if not for you. Thank you to everyone who came before me, those who lived, those who did not, those who were out, those who were not, in every place and every situation.

Thank you for Stonewall, thank you for defeating Anita Bryant so I can be an out teacher, thank you for teaching us what bravery means, thank you for the laws we do have in place as safeguards, thank you for our movement, thank you for existing.

I am a very outspoken activist in my personal and professional life, and that is a privilege I only have because of you. Please keep telling your stories, if you can, because they save us. You are our history and our family.

I'm sorry you were ignored, belittled, abused, shunned, and threatened by family, the police, strangers, society and government. I do everything I can think of to try to prevent that from happening now and in the future. And I never forget.

I celebrate and mourn you at every political rally I go to, every AIDS Walk I participate in, and every Pride event I attend. The world is still not perfect, but we're moving so quickly and yet so slowly and I hope you know that we will carry on your legacy. We will not forget you, nor will we forget what you've done. We may not say it often enough, but let me speak for the West Hollywood and San Diego (Hillcrest) communities, both of which I consider myself a part, and for communities and individuals all over the world: we love you.

I have never had the opportunity in a default, non-specifically LGBTQ space, to thank my own community, and never on this level, so I hope that you see this and know that you are my family. You, and every other LGBTQQIAAAP person, closeted or out; past, present, or future.

I love you.

And I am thankful for you.

Thankful_Lez

Source

Have you ever found yourself in an argument so stupid and/or pointless that you were sure you were being punked? Like you keep looking away from the other person to check your surroundings for places Ashton Kutcher and a camera crew could come popping out of?

You're not the only one.

u/Anti-hollowkid asked: What is the dumbest argument you've ever been in?

Brace yourselves, folks. Some of these arguments are breathtakingly bonkers. The sheer number of people who are willing to argue with someone over provable facts and what that other person likes or doesn't like is just ... stunning. It's stunning, you guys. Just not in a good way.

I Know What I Like

Giphy

My wife and I once argued over whether or not I liked mustard on my hot dog. I was for me liking mustard, she was against me liking mustard.

The argument lasted way longer that you could ever imagine it would.

- AardvarkAndy

A Stair Step

My brother and I argued if our staircase had 13 or 14 steps, based on an argument about if the floor of the second floor counts as a stair-step or not. We still have no solution.

- RazerWolf04

My dad is a stairbuilder and I spent many summers working at his warehouse, so I can clear this up. 14.

- Apples9308

Saturdays

My husband and I have this thing where we only say "I love you" on Saturdays. Every other day it's "I love you, but only on Saturdays." I don't know how it started, but it's been going for 11 years now.

We're both shiftworkers, so sometimes we have to stop and think what day it actually is. We had an argument recently over whether it was Saturday or not. I said it was Saturday, he said it was Friday. It was Monday.

- FormalMango

Iraq

I remember when I was about 13 my parents had an hour-long shouting match that ended with them almost getting divorced. The issue? Whether or not the nation of Iraq has a coastline.

My mother arguing that Iraq had a coastline, while my stepdad argued that it did not. This was back in 2004, and they are still quite happily married to this day. That incident is something they look back on and laugh about, and both of them admit it was really a pretty stupid thing to argue over.

- dontcryformegiratina

$40

With an ex:

"I owe you $80 for the bills of ours that you pay, and you owe me $40 for the bills of ours that I paid. Here's $40 in cash; we're even."

She did not understand this.

I literally had to go get another $40 out of the ATM, and hand the $80 to her. Then I had her hand me the $40 she owed me.

"Now how much do you have in your hand?"

She still didn't understand.

She somehow has a college degree.

- Speedly

Mini Wheats

When we were kids my brother and I got in a physical fight because he said I like mini wheats and I insisted I didn't. His argument was that I always sang the mini wheats song and I was deeply offended that he wasn't aware that it was just stuck in my head but I hated the cereal. I actually did like the cereal I'm not sure why I was arguing with him about it but I remember how genuinely angry I was.

- shicole3

Crayons

Giphy

I'll tell you about the only legal trouble I've ever been in, the fight that got me arrested. It started over whether we should return a box of crayons or not, and to this day I don't have any idea how it escalated to the point of the cops being called, but they were and I was the one taken in.

- CorrectionalChard

That's Unfair

My boyfriend insisted that when two people are in an argument and one makes a point so reasonable and logical the other one can't disagree with it - it's unfair. I tried, logically and reasonably, to explain several times why that is just winning the argument, proving your point thoroughly and is completely fair.

His answer was that I was being unfair.

- ShyAcorn

Pure Masochism

How the ch in masochism is pronounced. My friend caught me saying "masoKism" while he would say "masoSYism."

To be fair, he grew up speaking French, in which the ch in masochism is pronounced in "his" way. But he insisted that I was the wrong one here and that was just infuriating.

- argofire

Emailing NASA

A woman was adamant that looking at the big solar eclipse on the television was unsafe unless you were wearing glasses. She wouldn't believe us and insisted on emailing NASA to check.

- derawin07

A Non-Standard Ruler? 

I worked for a company that made signs. We had a customer ask for signs that were 7mm wide that were to go on a door. Our sign makers figured the order meant inches because 7mm is pretty small, so made them 7 inches. I got a phone call from the customer who went mad at me for making them the wrong size. So I put a reorder through for 7 mm.

Argued with the sign makers over it but they eventually agreed to do it after I shown them the order in writing. I even had the customer put her complaint in writing, reiterating the size they wanted.

7mm signs went out and a day later I get the customer on the phone literally screaming at me.

Cue the dumb argument - we ended up having an argument over how big a millimetre is, and obviously everyone in the office were laughing, but this customer just wouldn't accept it and said we must be using a non-standard ruler to measure.

Ended up being escalating to the sales department manager who refused to issue a refund. We still don't know what they actually meant.

- Lovelocke

This Unusual Vegan Argument

Was in a pub with a few friends, and some random Dude dropped an ear, and somehow figured I'm vegan. Well, people like him are the reason I usually avoid mentioning it. He came up to me and insisted on starting a discussion about veganism. He claimed that by the end of it, I would be eating meat again.

He listed some stupid arguments, I told him I was not convinced and then tried to keep on drinking beer with my friends. He followed me, and wanted me to "try to convert him to a vegan." I stupidly listed some of my reasons thinking it would make him go away. He told me he still was not convinced, so I was like whatever. Again, I really just wanted to drink beer with my friends.

That dude followed me all night and expected me to try make him vegan. Doesn't matter what I said, and all the reasons that for me are obviously good enough to be vegan. He'd be just like "No, that doesn't convince me, therefore your argument and how you life is stupid."

Didn't matter how often I told him that I honestly don't care; 5 minutes later he would come up to me again "I'm still not vegan, so veganism is stupid, all your arguments were stupid, now give me a good reason to become vegan!" At one point, I was literally yelling at him that I don't give a single flying f about what he eats and why, that it's in no way my responsibility to "turn somebody vegan" and in no way his business what I eat.

Honestly, for that dude, I would have bought a whole ham, just to shove it up his stupid annoying face.

- onlytruebertos

Monty Python

In college my roommate and I argued about a line in Monty Python & the Holy Grail. The scene with the Black Knight where the line "Alright, we'll call it a draw" is uttered. We argued about who said that line, whether it was King Arthur or the Black Knight.

It went on for hours longer than it should have because I was stubborn and refused to admit I was wrong.

- Skrivus

Albert or Arnold

Giphy

Whether Albert Einstein or Arnold Schwarzenegger would be more useful to have around during a Zombie apocalypse. How on earth would Albert Einstein come in handy!?

- Gerrard1995

Below Sea Level

I live on an island and when you go upland and you look out the sea looks like it's higher than or on the same level as the land. It's just a weird perspective thing because of the horizon. One day some kid says that it's because the island is under sea level.


I'm like wtf bro all of us would be with the fishes. He argues that no that's not true and if I just go upland I'll see. We then spend a good 5 minutes of my time arguing about it until I decided to leave this kid in his stupidity. He even said we shouldn't believe everything adults tell us and sometimes we need to think for ourselves.

This kid was older than me and was going to a good school. Lost my respect for him ever since then.

- -justforclout-

Tomash

Someone tried to fight with me over how to spell my name.

Now, my name is in a lot of languages with slightly different spellings. I would have accepted any of those spellings, but this one was just... Not even close. It didn't make any logical sense.


An analogous example is if my name was Thomas and someone was insisting it was spelled Tomash. And not just the name Thomas in general, but that me specifically, on my birth certificate, was named Tomash. I know how to spell my own name.

I swear to god, it went on for like an hour.

- TK-DuVeraun

Whales Are Mammals

I was in an online chat room one day, and we were talking about whales. I commented on how whales are mammals and the next thing you know, someone was arguing with me and trying to convince me that a whale was a fish.

- kawaii_psycho451

Microwaves

Stupid microwaves. Having a man child talk down to me about how microwaves work only for him to google it and prove me right. He slept on the sofa that night.

- sun_phobic

Shower Schedule

My friend keeps telling me that the norm is that a person should shower once a week. This has been going on for years. I'm almost convinced he's trolling me.

- LibrarianGovernment

No Balloons For Grandma

My cousin and I argued over a balloon going to Heaven. We were at his big sisters prom send off and he let a balloon go and it went high into the sky.

He then said this balloon will go up past space and go to Heaven and reach grandma (God rest her soul). And I was like no it's not and it's probably not even gonna reach space. Releasing balloons is terrible for the environment and kills/harms so much wildlife.

He got really mad and defensive and started telling me to google it and do my research and I'm like I don't have to google it you idiot. He was mad at me for a good week.

- Dskee02

Spontaneous Dolphin Existence

Giphy

How dolphins reproduced. It took me a few solid minutes of explaining to her that dolphins have reproductive organs and that they did not just pop into existence. The argument began with her saying she wanted to work with sea creatures.

Personally, I hope she was messing with me cause I lost a little faith in humanity that day.

- thebeststory

Male Chickens

I repeatedly had the argument with a friend over whether roosters were chickens. She was convinced that only the females were chickens (hens). We were 18 at the time.

- bee_zah

Lightning McQueen

Me and my friend were drinking underage, we ended up in an argument of whether lightning McQueen's eyes were blue or green. Somehow throughout the whole thing both of us never thought to straight up google a picture.

- 23071115

But ... Ice Floats

Waiter/Host here.

Woman wanted ice on the bottom of her drink.

Now read that sentence again and try to imagine arguing with that particular brand of stupid.

- FarWoods

Time Zones Exist

Coworker claimed that it was the same time of day and the same season on the whole globe. Had to get 4 coworkers to confirm to him that time zones do in fact exist.

- JustARegularToaster

Colorblind

My brother is colorblind. And he CONSTANTLY tries to correct me on what color things are.

"Hey could you hand me that red _____?"

"that's orange"

"no, it's red"

"orange"

"YOU CANT EVEN KNOW"

It is the base of our most common and heated arguments.

- droneb2hive

Andre 2000?

Giphy

I'm late, but I saw this question and instantly remembered that I was booted from a Facebook group because I called someone out on a lie that was not only bull, but extremely pointless. She was friends with the moderator and they made the case that my argument over such a little lie was more of a problem than the lie itself (though they didn't refer to it as a lie.)


The woman said that she used to babysit for Andre 3000 and that his name was Andre 2000 - but he changed it after the year 2000 had passed. This was so easily disproven it was ridiculous. Their debut album came out in 1994 and he was already going by Andre 3000 at that time.

The argument wasn't a huge long drawn out thing, but the fact that either of us were on Facebook at separate times meant that the responses were over a long period of time so this argument lasted a few days.

It was stupid.

- P1ST0L_Wh1PP3D

Stars Like Our Sun

I was arguing with my grandpa about stars he didn't believe that there are other stars like our sun. Basically he thought there is only the sun, the moon and the earth.

fox_boi2

Richard Nixon

I have a degree in history. I mostly focused on nationalism. Wrote a 50 page paper on it and Richard Nixon with around 50 100 sources. Looked at micro film for hours on end. Part of the paper focused on how Nixon being chair of the house committee of Unamerican Activities was used as a powerful weapon to use against political enemies. It also inspired Joe McCarthy. Have had people tell me I was wrong and Nixon was never elected to a position besides the president and Joe McCarthy came before Nixon. I stopped trying to talk history to people.


I also know quite a bit about the history of the Balkans its amazing how many Serbs refuse to believe Tito did anything wrong.

Wrote 100 page paper on nationalism in Israel. Its frustrating to talk about because for some reason a lot of people think Palestinian firing rockets randomly into Israel is ok but if Israel retaliates the people get up in arms over a targeted air strike that kills 3 people.

grumblecakes1

Balloon to Heaven

My cousin and I argued over a balloon going to Heaven. We were at his big sisters prom send off and he let a balloon go and it went high into the sky. He then said this balloon will go up past space and go to Heaven and reach grandma (God rest her soul). And I was like no it's not and it's probably not even gonna reach space.

And he got really mad and defensive and started telling me to google it and do my research and I'm like I don't have to google it you idiot. He was mad at me for a good week.

Dskee02

Binder Clips

I got into an argument with a co-worker over how we were attaching two pages of a letter together: small binder clips or paper clips.

He felt that paper clips would leave a "dent" in the paper when removed, but binder clips won't. He refused to staple them together. I felt that binder clips would also leave a "dent", so we might as well just use the paper clips.

It ended with him saying: "Do what you want [me], I don't care!" and storming off.

justantherredditgirl

Jewish

Once got accused of faking being Jewish. Why? I have no clue. We argued over the course of a month, any time I'd bring it up and she heard about it, she'd begin going after me for "faking it".

My mother's side is ethnically Jewish. Grandparents were practicing.

Aslkurloz

Nutella

Giphy

3 friends and I once got into an argument about how to pronounce Nutella. It lasted for about 3-4 months. It was hilarious how serious we took it, it'd get heated but never for real serious.

I think someone even called the company that made it to check, or that may have been for the Cheetos company. We were really bored in high school.

vault_tec_redditor

Lingerie Boxes

Late to the party, but there it is.

I'm a manager at a small store. We're only 4 working there, so my team and I grew very close and we joke around a lot. Once during a slow shift, my employee and I had an argument because we were looking at the lingerie boxes, and I thought that two specific boxes had the same woman on it, but she was 100% positive they weren't the same person.

Looking back, I don't know why it was such a big deal to us at the time, but we even called another employee who lives across the street to come and tell us what the heck was up with that. Turns out I was right, and she was pretty salty about it. It was a great night.

Meh75

Wicked Witch of the West

I almost got into an argument with an old girlfriend over Glinda the good witch from Oz. She insisted that Glinda was manipulating Dorothy to assassinate the Wicked Witch of the West and convince the Wizard to leave to create a political void she could fill.

I conceded the issue when I heard the whole premise because I thought it was too damn stupid to get worked up over.

weirdatwork2017

Keep Your Hands to Yourself

Just the other day I legit got in an argument with my co-workers on why I don't like my butt being grabbed by anyone (I'm a guy). Seriously.

They went on about "I don't mind it. Mike and I do it all the time and we don't care." Yeah, that's nice dude, but I'm not you, and there's something called "Keep your hands to yourself" (which was taught to a good portion of us growing up). Just like how Karen wouldn't like it if I touched her boobs or her grabbing your crotch or frankly ANY area you wouldn't like being grabbed, keep away. In general, you should not be touching me in any areas after I've told you not to several times before.

So unless you're sleeping me or dating me, keep your damn hands off my toosh.

Frisby2007

Telekinesis

My best friend and I argued over whether or not telekinesis was possible. Her argument was that humans don't yet know what the human brain at 100% usage was capable of, and that telekinesis was inside the possibilities.

I said the brain does use 100%, just at different times.

We didn't speak to each other for four days.

dude_bizarro

Ghosts

How dolphins reproduced and whether or not ghost existed (back to back with the same person). It took me a few solid minutes of explaining to her that dolphins have reproductive organs and that they did not just pop into existence (the argument began with her saying she wanted to work with sea creatures).


How it shifted to the existence of ghosts is a solid and reasonable question to ask (I don't remember why). I had to then proceed to tell her that ghost hunting TV shows do not constitute as undeniable evidence.

Personally, I hope she was messing with me cause I lost a little faith in humanity that day. This was in high school SO... hopefully she was kidding.

thebeststory

Dogs and Chocolate

Giphy

I told this stupid woman that chocolate is toxic to dogs. She went on to tell me how a little bit will just make them hyper and then they will calm down. I told her to google it. Her and her bf shut right up. Now they have a kid. Good luck, Jeremy and Andrea. morons.

I should also add that this argument started because Jeremy was giving his tiny dog chocolate and I told him it was toxic.

KlutzyHedgehog

Is water wet?

My roommate and I have a recurring argument over whether or not water is wet l, and whether or not a person is considered wet underwater.

For the record, it is no to both questions.

SFCopperhead

Mission Trip

A kid a church telling me about the mission trip I went on. Not only was I not on that trip, but I had never been on any mission trip. We were good friends, so it's not like he would've mistaken someone else for me.

He insisted I was there as if an entire week long trip would just fall out of my memory. He even had stories of things we'd done together. I'm not sure if he thought I was lying, joking, stupid, or crazy, but I was pretty sure he was some combination thereof.

SirRogers

Dragon Tales

One time I got into a shouting match with my mom and little brother in the car. The issue? The names of the two-headed dragon from the PBS kids afternoon show Dragon Tales. I swore it was Zack and Macie.

It was actually Zak and Wheezie. I don't even remember why we were yelling about it.

MistalQueensglaive

Green Or Yellow?

When I was about 15 or so my mother and I spent about 20-30 minutes arguing about the color of a shirt. We agreed it was blue/green, but to me it was just a shade more blue, while to her it was just a bit more green.

Turns out, your eyeballs yellow as you age and hers were 24 years yellower than mine, so I think that skewed her color vision.

BugsRatty

Stars In Their Multitude

Giphy

I once got in an argument over whether or not a line from the song "Stars" in Les Mis says "...but mine is the way of the lord" or "mine is the way of the law".

I didn't even really care what he thought but he was so adamant and cocky that it got me heated. By the end of it we were shouting at each other and I had to apologize, which I think is what he wanted the whole time.

theedjman

Colorblind

My brother is colorblind. And he CONSTANTLY tries to correct me on what color things are.

"Hey could you hand me that red _____?" "that's orange" "no, it's red" "orange" "YOU CANT EVEN KNOW".

It is the base of our most common and heated arguments.

droneb2hive

Hot Water

About five years ago, my girlfriend (now wife) once had a very intense argument about whether or not hot water cleaned things better than cold water.

She genuinely believed that water temperature didn't matter. This is someone who has not one, but two masters degrees.

We argued for something like 2 hours, and we seriously almost broke up over the whole thing.

moniker5000

Biology Class

I had an argument with a girl IN THE MIDDLE OF A BIOLOGY CLASS in high school about how humans are not mammals. She thought a human was a human and we are not mammals because "mammals are animals and humans are not animals"

I tried explaining to her the difference between reptiles and mammals and how humans fall under the mammal category to try and educate her... but she just wouldn't listen.

I still have no idea why the BIOLOGY teacher did not get involved...

10d4plus8

Solid Or Liquid?

Some classmates and I got into a heated debate as to whether or not the human body could count as a soup, salad, or sandwich. The teacher got mad at us, but hey! All we were doing was watching a movie.

For the record, my logic lays with soup- Liquid contained within a solid, at a hot temperature.

ScreamingPotoo